Secretary of State Marco Rubio with Sergio Novelli on Al Día Con Sergio Novelli

(Via translation.)

QUESTION:  We have with us the Secretary of State Marco Rubio who we’re going to talk about current events.  One of the biggest stories making headlines right now is the oil agreement announced by the President of the United States, Donald Trump.  Secretary, I wanted to ask you, did you participate directly in that negotiation, that agreement between the United States and Venezuela?  In other words, has the agreement already been signed?  Is it legally binding?  When will we be able to see the details of this document?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Of course.  But, well, first, obviously I participated.  And it is an important part of Venezuela’s transition and the country’s recovery.  There is still much more to be done.  The issues of democracy and elections are important.  All of that works together.  In terms of the figures, well, yesterday, we, a document was issued with many details about exactly what – this really is not an agreement with the interim government. It is an agreement with a private company with which the United States is participating together, obviously through the system that exists at this time.  And our hope is that this creates a model for other investments that, at the end of the day, begin to normalize the way the Venezuelan economy operates.  The Venezuelan economy during the years of Chavismo had really become something controlled by a network of corruption of people who were stealing, including people and countries that were stealing Venezuela’s wealth. 

For example, Cuba was being given billions of dollars in value of barrels of oil.  China was paying very little for the oil; they were receiving it at a discount.  In the case of Russia, they were simply taking the oil as payment on debt.  And many friends of Maduro and others had also benefited.  And what Venezuela needs in the long term is not simply a republic, a democratically elected republic, but also a government and an economic system that function normally and in a way that benefits the people.  The resources, for example, the investments and the taxes paid on those investments, should go directly to helping the people and the legitimate government of a country, not to individuals connected to those in power.  So, all of that is important as part of this process.

QUESTION:  I’d like to clarify some points related to this agreement with this company, North American Blue Energy Partners, which we understand is controlled by controversial businessman Alejandro Betancourt and would play an important role in these seventeen oil fields.  My question is, who selected this company, and what due diligence process did the U.S. government conduct?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Of course.  Well, first, this company is the largest private company that Venezuela had in terms of production and it also has a track record of being able to produce oil.  And simply what this is now is an agreement with the U.S. government through the Department of War.  Because they – we have a special account that can take possession of certain percentages of these types of things, to normalize that system, so that then it can create this opportunity to expand the country’s production capacity.  Remember that, of these 17 fields, the vast majority were controlled by Chinese or Russian interests.  Most of these fields were in the hands of the Chinese and the Russians, and many of them were not even being used. 

Now what we have is a system in which this company is going to produce more, with the support of the United States, and will be able to attract the private investment necessary to invest in the production capacity of these fields.  That is going to produce, as they say in English, royalties, but payments to the government.  Which eventually will be a democratically elected government in a republic.  And that, in turn, will be able to be used to expand the government’s capacity, as it should be in a normal country.  In the past, unfortunately, the vast majority of the country’s wealth was stolen or given away to geopolitical interests that are contrary to the interests not only of the Venezuelan people, but specifically in my case, in the job that I have, the interests of this country, of the United States, and of our national security.

QUESTION:  Excuse me for insisting, but why this particular company?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  It is the second – it is the largest private company that exists, after Chevron.  But it is the largest that exists in terms of not only the number of fields they have, but also their production capacity.  On top of that, the vast majority of the other fields were not operating.  Many of these fields had been given away, for example, to individuals connected to the-to the regime, but they were not producing or were producing very little.  This is a company that has a track record of production, that has knowledge of the system, and now we have in place a whole series of laws and regulations that will regulate the way in which it is going to be professionalized.  This is going to become a professionalized operation with, with jurisdiction and laws that will apply to it so that the money is never used improperly or in a way – that is not adequate or appropriate.

QUESTION:  Now, but this company is linked to Alejandro Betancourt.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Correct.

QUESTION:  A person who has, let’s say, an extensive history, including investigations related to corruption in Venezuela and other countries.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, two things. First, we thoroughly investigate what we know within our system.  Obviously, if these individuals were under investigation in the United States, and we have checked that with all the authorities, there was no investigation within our system against him.  Second, unfortunately, when you look at these issues, it is complicated, right?  Because, on the other hand, he is also an individual who is already known, who provided a great deal of support, for example, during the time of Juan Guaidó. 

Before I entered this position, during President Trump’s first term in 2019, this was an individual who ended up in a very, very bad place with Maduro.  Because it became known that he was supporting elements of the opposition back in 2019, which even created problems for him with Maduro.  But now we have an opportunity to do something that I believe is going to benefit everyone.  But specifically, in the long term, benefit the Venezuelan people. 

And no – this is only one part of that.  Obviously, there are still – Venezuela’s oil reserves are enormous, and there are many private companies outside of this that also want to invest in the country and turn it into a professional system, a system that works the way it is supposed to work.  That is, they pay the government the royalties, as they say in English, and that money goes toward the capacity to build schools, roads, respond to earthquakes.  We saw at this time that the government, after – through years of stealing the money, did not even have the capacity to respond to a, a situation like the earthquake.  All of that has to happen as part of a recovery so that the country can begin to recover from 25 years of mismanagement and corruption.

QUESTION:  Yes. Now, how could we, or how could one, in any case, ensure that this money actually reaches the Venezuelan people, meets the needs of the Venezuelan people, and does not end up in corruption?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well.

QUESTION:  As in the last twenty-seven years.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Correct.  Two things.  In the short term, because this is part of a process.  This is not something that happens from one day to the next, but it is part of a process.  In the short term, as we well know, the United States has positioned itself in such a way that it can conduct, through KPMG, audits of all the money that is being generated at this time.  In the long term, the future of Venezuela is to have a democratically elected- elected government, in a republic where the country’s leaders are directly accountable to the laws of the country and to the voters of that country.  That is where we have to end up with this project.  At the end of the day, it is to have – what we have right now is an interim government that is functioning in that capacity because we do not want destabilization, we do not want violence, we do not want mass migration, we do not want any type of situation that could destabilize the country. 

And there is precedent for this in other countries that have gone through transitions.  You have to work with the authorities that exist at that time.  But our desire and our goal here is not to create a permanent system, for the current system to become the permanent system.  What we all want on our part, and we have insisted on this and have been very clear about it, is that at the end of the day, the time will come when Venezuela has to be governed by a democratically elected government.  But remember that democracy and a republic are not just about an election.  The election is obviously key, but that election has to be a valid election.  And the government that takes office, we do not want them to inherit an economic disaster, a country in disaster.  We want them to inherit a country that is stabilized and that has the – obviously, it is going to continue to have problems, but that it doesn’t have a crisis situation.

QUESTION:  Exactly.  Because that would be, in any case, the possibility of holding free elections in Venezuela very soon.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  No, but that has to happen.  Everyone here understands that it has to happen.  Because at the end of the day, Venezuela cannot get to where it needs to be without having a legitimate government, a government that complies with all international standards, that can receive the necessary recognition.  Even investors are going to want to see that, they are going to want to know that the system that exists is the same.  Look, for example, no country is perfect, but in this country everyone knows that in the United States there are a series of laws and courts and a judicial branch, legislative branch, an executive branch.  And even though the leaders change, at the end of the day, the law and the system remain the same.  That type of, that type of stability is necessary for a country to move forward. 

What happens is, as has happened in other cases, for example, you look at the case of Nicaragua, where they held elections almost immediately and they won.  The opposition won. But a few years later, Sandinismo returned and took control of the country and they lost their freedom. We do not want that here.  We want a permanent democracy and republic for the future of Venezuela.  But you have to understand, we are – Venezuela is still recovering from more than 20-some years of a system that has been corrupted and does not work.

QUESTION:  Is there a deadline for those elections?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, for me, it would be as soon as possible. Obviously, the conditions have to exist, and those conditions have to be created. For example, at this very moment, if there were elections in Venezuela tomorrow, we would be using the existing machinery.  That machinery is not going to give you a system – it is not going to give you a valid election.

QUESTION:  So it has to be cleaned up.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  But it is – well, for example, the opposition parties.  They need room, space, time, and resources to be able to organize themselves as a political movement. We are talking about movements that for the last several years have had to demonstrate in the streets as a protest movement. Now they have to become a political movement that can conduct a campaign.  We have to have a free, open press so that all the candidates can express themselves. We have to have a National Electoral Council that everyone accepts as a legitimate council.  We have to have voting machinery that everyone knows has not been tampered with.  We have to have international elements from abroad that oversee and give their approval, their seal of approval, to those elections.  All of that is necessary. 

We have to create the conditions for that, including security.  Nor can we have situations in which, look, an interesting case that is happening right now in the hemisphere, the case of Bolivia as well.  There were elections, the current president won, but he has now faced a whole series of very serious problems because the country is still recovering from years and years of mismanagement.

We do not want that for Venezuela.  We want that when there are elections in Venezuela, which God willing will be as soon as possible, those elections do not-not simply a democratically elected government, but a government that is not inheriting a total and complete disaster.  Because then it is going to make the task of creating that lasting republic even more difficult.  And finally, I will tell you that efforts are already underway to make that happen.  For example, next month, members of the leadership of the 2015 National Assembly, which we have recognized in the past as the legitimate government of the country, will meet again. And those negotiations, we – it is up to the Venezuelans, but we are going to do everything possible to continue facilitating those negotiations.

QUESTION:  Yes, of course.  That is exactly what leads me to ask you, Secretary, about María Corina Machado, who has emerged as a leader par excellence at this time in Venezuela, and she has reiterated that she wants to return to the country.  In fact, she said, yesterday she said that she has a clear, clear plan to return.  My question is, would she have to receive the approval of the United States in order to return to Venezuela?  Or can she do so?  Why?  Because —

SECRETARY RUBIO:  No. María Corina Machado, a Venezuelan citizen, has every right to enter her country whenever she wants to return.  We have given her advice.  For example, during the earthquake, we had many concerns and will continue to have concerns in the future, but we want her safety to be guaranteed.  But, in any event, she has every right to return.  She is a Venezuelan citizen.  She is Venezuelan. She is not Panamanian, she is not American, she is Venezuelan and she can – but it is not only María Corina, whom I greatly admire.

There are also other important political figures from the past who have had to go into exile.  We understand that at this time many of the leaders, for example, who I (in the years 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017), when I was the only one here talking about Venezuela in Washington, many of the figures we dealt with back then are outside the country.  They still have not returned to the country.  It is important that all of those individuals, if they want to, be able to return and participate in Venezuela’s political life in a way that does not put them in danger and that they are given the necessary space to participate.  As they have the right, as Venezuelan citizens, to participate in the future of Venezuela.  If they wish to do so.

QUESTION:  Could she return as soon as tomorrow?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  That is up to her.  We cannot prevent her from traveling anywhere.

QUESTION:  No, of course.  But would the government provide her with security, provide security for her?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  We will always be clear that we believe she is a Venezuelan citizen.  If she returns to Venezuela, we do not believe that anything negative should be done against her.  But she also has a very important role that she is carrying out right now, and that is organizing all of the, unfortunately, millions of Venezuelans who had to leave their country.  Because Venezuelans abroad, Venezuelans living in the United States, Venezuelans living in Spain, Venezuelans living in Panama, also have the right (if they wish) to participate in Venezuela’s political life in the future.  Some will return, others will not return, but they want to participate.  They want, for example, to vote from abroad.  All of that is important.  It’s not that she is doing nothing.  She is participating in that right now, in organizing – the reality is that a large percentage of the Venezuelan population, more than seven or eight million, had to leave their country.  They also have a key role to play in the future of Venezuela.

QUESTION:  Of those seven to eight million, a significant number are here in the United States.  You know that, Secretary.  My question is, sometimes one understands or sees a certain contradiction in the discourse.  On the one hand, there is support for a transition, for free elections in Venezuela, although the situation in the country is still not entirely, let’s say, resolved.  And many Venezuelan migrants living here in this country are going through difficult times and do not have any type of protection, despite having jobs and contributing to the country through our taxes, things have been very difficult for them.  I ask because I know we are short on time, what response could you give to those Venezuelan families currently living in the United States who have contributed greatly to the United States?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  I understand.  Look, I will tell you that this is not focused on Venezuelans; this is in general.  This country, unfortunately, during the Biden years, received almost more than 20 million people who entered this country, and many who stayed after their visas expired.  Others entered illegally and were allowed into this country.  This country was the victim of mass immigration that we received and that no country can absorb.  And this administration and this President were elected on a promise to fix that. 

As I will tell you, that does not simply apply to Venezuelans.  We are seeing cases involving Cubans, for the first time.  We are seeing the case of Haitians, Salvadorans, people from every country, even from around the world, because this country, at the end of the day, has laws, and those laws have to be followed.  In terms of temporary statuses, a temporary status has to expire somehow.  But all of those statuses – and again, this is not specifically about Venezuelans; it is in general, all temporary statuses have to expire at some point.  And they were never expiring; they had become a permanent status.  So, unfortunately, because of what happened during those Biden years, this country now has to fix that immigration system.  And that is having an impact on various populations, including the Venezuelan population in the United States, but other, other communities as well. 

So, this is not focused on the Venezuelan community.  But I understand that it is a difficult issue because when you have to deal with or confront something like what happened to this country, it has real-life consequences that are sometimes difficult to accept or to see.  But, on the other hand, you have to understand that this country had a very serious immigration crisis that it is trying to recover from, and this President campaigned on that promise to deal with this issue.

QUESTION:  Now, but what response can we give to these Venezuelans who are in distress, Secretary?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Well, every case is different.  Look, immigration cases do not fall under my purview, because that is not the Department of State.  But I will tell you that every status is different.  Someone who is seeking political asylum has that process.  Someone who is here under temporary status, a non-permanent status, has a different process.  Every case is different.  So you look at these cases and some are more complex than others.  It all depends on the manner in which that individual entered the country, what status they are in at this time, and what type of visa they used to enter.  Whether they violated the country’s immigration laws because their visa expired and they did not return.  These are very specific cases.  And I will tell you that it all depends on the case.

QUESTION:  Of course, obviously each case is individual. But would there be a possibility, for example, of approving a DED, as they were approved in the first Trump administration?

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Everything is possible.  That is not being discussed at this time.  Because, unfortunately, every time that type of thing is discussed, what it does is, we have seen it in the past, every time any project like that is discussed in advance, what it does is create the perception in the minds of some that there is special permission to enter the United States.  Every time something that is going to be done has been discussed in this country, what it does is create an incentive for people to enter the country thinking that they can benefit from it.  Even though, under the regulations that had been contemplated, that is really not the case.  But there are people who think it is. 

At this time what we are trying to do is, what this administration has tried to do is prevent another wave of mass immigration to the United States.  And really one of the things that is so important.  Look, at the end of the day it is – we are clear about this: there is no reason why Venezuelans should have to leave their country.  Venezuela is a rich country.  Venezuela is a country with great potential.  What it had was a very serious political problem, a political crisis.  There was not, not only economic freedom, there was no freedom.  So at the end of the day, the solution here is not simply immigration reform.  The solution is a Venezuelan, a Venezuela where Venezuelans who wish to return can return and live without having political or economic concerns.

QUESTION:  Yes.  That’s right.  And we greatly appreciate, as a Venezuelan myself, we greatly appreciate the work that the United States has done and its concern for Venezuela.  So, truly, I am grateful on behalf of all my fellow Venezuelans, Secretary.  I greatly appreciate your time.  I know that you have to leave, and I am truly immensely grateful for giving me this interview.

SECRETARY RUBIO:  Of course. It’s important, Sergio. Thank you.