LONDON HUB

MODERATOR:  Greetings to everyone from the U.S. Department of State’s London International Media Hub.  I would like to welcome our participants dialing in from Syria and around the world for this briefing with Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Barbara A. Leaf and Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs Roger D. Carstens.  We will have 30 minutes for this on-the-record briefing on Syria.

We are pleased to offer this briefing with simultaneous interpretation into Arabic.  We therefore ask everyone to keep this in mind and speak slowly.

We will have some opening remarks from our speakers and then they will take questions from participating journalists.

I will now turn it over to Assistant Secretary Leaf for her opening remarks.  Ma’ am, the floor is yours.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  So, let me just start with a few remarks.  We visited Damascus today as the first American diplomats to go in since 2012.  It was a short trip, but was a really important opportunity to engage with Syrians and hear from them directly during this watershed moment in Syria’s history.

After five decades of the Assad regime’s tyranny, Syrians have a rare opportunity to rebuild and reshape their country.  I was truly inspired by the resilience and perseverance of the Syrian people we met today.  No one understands the challenges ahead better than they do themselves.  I appreciated hearing directly from Syrian civil society activists, members of different communities, and other Syrian voices about their vision for the future of their country and how we can help support them.

We met with the quite heroic White Helmets to affirm our continued support for their life-saving efforts and tireless work to transform Syria for the better of all Syrians.

We also held a commemorative event to honor the tens of thousands – Syrians and non-Syrians alike – who were detained, tortured, forcibly disappeared or missing, and who brutally perished at the hands of the former regime.

I also met with representatives of the interim authorities, including Ahmed al-Sharaa, to discuss the set of principles agreed upon by the U.S. and our regional partners in Aqaba.  We welcomed positive messages, and we will be looking for progress on these principles in actions, not just words.

I also communicated the importance of inclusion and broad consultation during this time of transition.  We fully support a Syrian-led and Syrian-owned political process that results in an inclusive and representative government, which respects the rights of all Syrians, including women and Syria’s diverse ethnic and religious communities.

For American diplomats, our foremost responsibility is to keep U.S. citizens safe and secure anywhere in the world.  Even though the – even throughout the Assad regime years, the U.S. Government never stopped our intensive efforts to ascertain the fate of those detained or missing in Syria, such as Austin Tice and  Majd Kamalmaz.

For the past two weeks, the U.S. Government, including via the efforts of the FBI and Ambassador Carstens, have ramped up these efforts, given new opportunities to engage with Syrians on the ground.  I stressed our continued focus on this to the interim authorities.  We also hope to uncover information about the fate of other American citizens who disappeared under the Assad regime.  We’ re working to get additional U.S. officials into Damascus to help direct search, even as we have been directly enabling partners on the ground supporting this effort.

As we stated in Aqaba, Syrians have an unprecedented opportunity to forge a new, freer, and inclusive society that occupies its rightful place both regionally and on the world stage.  The U.S. is committed to working with the Syrian people to help seize this historic opportunity.

We also discussed the critical need to ensure terrorist groups cannot pose a threat inside of Syria or externally, including to the U.S. and our partners in the region.  Ahmed al-Sharaa committed to this.  And so based on our discussion, I told him we would not be pursuing the Rewards for Justice reward offer that has been in effect for some years.

I’m going to now turn over the mike, as it were, to Ambassador Carstens, who will offer some remarks.

MR CARSTENS:  Thank you, Ambassador Leaf, and thank you, everyone, for joining this call.  I’ll be short.

As I think some of you know, I’ve been in Beirut and Amman working on this since about December 9th.  When we were in Doha for the Doha Forum about December 7th and 8th, we realized that Damascus was about to fall and we wanted to reposition to get closer to Damascus where we could have more impact on the search for Austin Tice.  As you can imagine, I think we’ve all been pressing and unrelenting in our efforts to get on the ground in Damascus to search for Austin Tice, mainly because we feel it’s our duty as the U.S. Government to press on until we know with certainty what happened to him, where he is, and to bring him home.

Now, to do so, we’ve cast a wide net.  I’ve been working with partners, allies, NGOs, members of the media, and members of the interim authorities, in addition to our partners, of course, at the Hostage Recovery Fusion Cell, the FBI, and others to try to see if we can find his disposition – not only of Austin Tice, though, but other Americans that have gone missing in Syria to include Majd Kamalmaz, who disappeared in 2017.

So, our partners were able to help us fine-tune our search efforts, and today we worked with the interim authorities to jointly search a location of interest.  Now, there are other locations that need to be searched in the coming days, weeks and months, and we’ll be working with the interim authorities – and I would call them a group of truth seekers – to find and return Austin Tice and other Americans who went missing under the Assad regime.

Thank you.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  And now I’d like to ask Ambassador Rubinstein to say a few comments as well.

AMBASSADOR RUBINSTEIN:  Thank you very much.  I would just add that I was honored to join my colleagues today for this trip, which in addition to being the first such diplomatic engagement in so many years, was particularly meaningful for me personally, having served earlier in my career during the Assad regime and later on in my career working on Syria issues.  And it was particularly inspirational to meet with that wide variety of Syrians who now have the opportunities that Assistant Secretary Leaf described, and also are facing such grave challenges.

Thank you very much.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Okay, and I guess we’re ready for questions now.

MODERATOR:  Thank you, colleagues.  We will now begin the question-and-answer portion of today’s call.  Our first question is a pre-submitted question and it comes from Hussam Baramo of Al-Quds Al-Arabi.  And Hussam asks:  “As a Syrian national, I see Syria’s priorities as stability, economy, and democracy.  Do you have any plans to help on these issues?”

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Hussam, thank you for that.  And yes, indeed, we are very committed to those three – those three elements.  And you’ll see that those are very clearly laid out in the Aqaba principles that we published last Saturday when we – Secretary Blinken convened with counterparts from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, as well as the EU and Arab League and several of our European partners as well.

So, our approach to Syria is very much rooted in the belief that we can best help the Syrian people exit this long national nightmare and get onto a road of not just recovery but actual – actually seizing the opportunity to build a new Syria.  We can best do that with policies that aim to support the sovereignty that has been so trampled upon by Russia and Iran over these years, but also help them achieve stability – and stability that will be of a wider – a wider good for their own neighborhood.

We also want to see, obviously, inclusive and a transparent process and a participatory process that will be inclusive and render a government that draws on Syria’s rich fabric of communities, and women as well as men.  And of course, we want to do what we can to help Syrians recover economically from the years of war and mismanagement – mismanagement and corruption.

MODERATOR:  Thank you.  We’ll next take a question from the live queue and we’ll go to Humeyra Pamuk from Reuters.  Humeyra, please ask your question.

QUESTION:  Hello.  Thank you, Barbara.  Thanks for doing this.  A couple of questions.  Just to be clear, in your comments you said U.S. is not going to pursue the Rewards for Justice, so you are removing the bounty on Jolani’s – Ahmed al-Sharaa’s head?  Just —

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Yes.

QUESTION:  — if you can confirm.  Okay.  And did you discuss with him the possible removal of sanctions?  Did he ask for it?  What did you promise him or what kind of – I mean, were there any assurances or did you ask him to do XYZ?  What steps and then you U.S. would deliver that?  Can you talk a little bit about that discussion?

And on Austin Tice, to all of you, based on your conversations with the interim authorities and your other contacts on the ground, have you received any new intel that would reinforce your assessment that he’s alive?  Thanks.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Thanks, Humeyra.  I’m largely going to say that the texture of details of the discussion that I had with Sharaa were diplomatic in nature, and I’m not going to go into detail.  But I would just say that in – as a as a matter of course, we don’t discuss deliberation over sanctions.  So, I wouldn’t in any case in this.

But we had a – we had a good thoroughgoing discussion on a range of regional issues as well as the domestic scene, and I heard him on his priorities, which are very much rooted in getting Syria on the road to economic recovery.

Roger, you want to take on the —

MR CARSTENS:  Indeed.  Your question on Austin Tice:  By working with the interim authorities and just a lot of partners on the ground, we’ve actually had a lot of information coming in.  The tragic part is we have to keep evaluating it.  You’d like to get that thing that you receive, and you know for sure it’s true and real and that it’s going to make a difference.  Sadly, the information comes in; we have to keep evaluating its validity.  We’re, I would say, compiling all the information and pulling it all together.  And really the bottom line is the information that we have right now doesn’t confirm either in one way or the other.

What I can tell you is this:  The President of the United States said recently that he believes Austin to be alive, and it’s our duty to keep pressing and pushing to see if we can find all the information that we possibly can to get a sense of – with certainty, by the way – what happened to him, where he is, and to bring him home.

MODERATOR:  Thank you.  And if I may kindly remind everyone to please speak slowly for the benefit of our interpretation.

Our next question is a pre-submitted question, and it comes from Manar Abdulrazak from Radio Nasaem in Syria.  And Manar asks:  “Can the United States play a pivotal role in the reconstruction of Syria?  What conditions or criteria will be set for that?”

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Thanks, Manar.  At this point, of course, you may be aware the Caesar Act has pretty far-ranging restrictions on that, on that area.  So, we are looking in the first instance at the authorities we have to assist the Syrian people, the Syrian public in some urgent areas.  Of course, there is latitude for that in humanitarian assistance generally.

But when it comes to reconstruction, that’s going to – that is something that will be an issue that – for consideration and we’ re going to have to look at a number of things that relate to Caesar.  Because, as you as you know, Caesar relates to – or rather the Caesar Act lays out a series of areas in which a government would have to be responsive and have to demonstrate progress, things that of course the Assad regime never made any attempt to do.

So, for the moment, I can’t really tell you anything on reconstruction.

MODERATOR:  Thanks very much.  We’ll next take a question from the live queue.  If we could please go to Elizabeth Hagedorn from Al-Monitor.  Elizabeth, you may ask your question.

QUESTION:  Hi, thank you.  On the subject of sanctions and HTS’s terror designation, I know you can’t preview the lifting of either of those, but is the U.S. looking at issuing any humanitarian carveouts that would make it easier for aid operations to operate in Syria?  And then also, should we expect more regular trips and diplomatic engagement from U.S. officials in Syria?  Thank you.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Yeah, so on the first, we already have the latitude to do quite a bit of humanitarian assistance and early recovery assistance.  So, we will of course continue to refine our approach as we see the needs, but obviously it will be a multilateral effort as well.

As to your second issue, I’ m going to let Ambassador Rubinstein answer that.

AMBASSADOR RUBINSTEIN:  The short answer to the question is yes to the degree that commissions – conditions permit.  Obviously, we need to look at the operational conditions.  We were able to have a successful visit today and we’re going to try to do them prudently and as frequently as practical.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  And I would just want to clear up one misapprehension.  I was supposed to do a press engagement there in Damascus.  Actually, the – we had planned for some time, and because my – our meeting went long at the MFA, we then found that we could not move the – our convoy fast enough because of what sounds like were some celebratory demonstrations or street parties or what have you in an area that we just simply couldn’t navigate fast enough because we were at the point of sunset and we had to get back on the road.

This being the first trip, this being not two weeks into post-Assad Syria, we necessarily – our security was very prudent about our stay in town.  And so I just want to make it clear there was no security issue as such. It was just we could not literally get to the venue in time before we had to leave town.

MODERATOR:  We’ll next take a pre-submitted question from Mohammed Elfenich with Alghad TV.  And Mohammed asks:  “Bashar’s crimes in Syria are horrific.  Will he be brought to justice?”

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Well, Mohammed, that would be a question I would suggest you address to the Russian Government since that’s where he is.  Obviously, accountability and justice for the crimes of decades, but especially the crimes committed during and after the civil war – Syrians desperately want that.  And I think it behooves all of us in the international community to lean into this to offer the technical expertise and other support to deal with what is just a confounding mass of documentation of these crimes, as well as just a terrifyingly large number of graves and mass graves.  So that will be a priority for our government, for certain.

MODERATOR:  Next, we’ll go to the live queue and to Hiba Nasr from Asharq News.  Hiba, please ask your question.

QUESTION:  Thank you.  Thank you, Barbara.  I want to follow up.  I know you said you don’t want to elaborate on diplomatic conversation, but since you have a limited amount of time during which you can make a difference before a new administration is in office, have you at least called for practical steps from HTS and al-Sharaa that would allow you to open the door for lifting the sanctions or removing them from the terrorist list, paving the way, for example, for reconstruction and the creating a new reality before the new administration arrives?

And my second question is —

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Well, so, Hiba, Hiba, can I just answer one?  Because actually we have I think 80 questions that are queued up.  So let me just take the first.

QUESTION:  Okay, okay.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  So it’s a really good question but I want to go at it a little bit differently, because what really struck all of us today in every engagement with Syrians, even if it was an idle conversation with the staff or what have you – or civil society activists – a very strong conviction that the new Syria is for Syrians to design and the Syrian public wants a say, wants a place at – a seat at the table, many seats at the table.

So, the kinds of things, for instance, that 2254 calls for, that the Caesar Act calls for are actually the kinds of inclusive, transparent governance, respect for human rights, accountability, et cetera that we were hearing all day Syrians want.  So, it is a – it is a very dynamic setting in Syria, to say the least.  You – a country, a society comes out of over five decades of the most horrifying repression and then this terrible civil war.  There’s obviously potential for a lot of conflict, internal conflict, and conflict over people for the first time having an opportunity to voice their opinions, their demands, et cetera.

But there was also just, frankly, a very common theme that – one Syria for one people and unity above all.  So, I think there’s going to be quite a degree of internal pressure for – on both the interim authorities and then whatever transitional government comes a few months from now – to move in the direction that would in fact be consonant with the kind of requirements that we would have in terms of sanctions, changes on sanctions.

MODERATOR:  Next we’ll take a pre-submitted question from Maryam Rahmati of Volant Media, and Maryam asks:  “What kind of role do you think regional actors such as Iran and Türkiye will play in the future of Syria?”

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Well, if I’m to judge by today, Iran will have no role whatsoever, and it shouldn’t, frankly.  Iran’s had decades now of the most predatory and destructive behavior and presence in Syria, and during the war itself, of course, mustered foreign militias, its own IRGC forces, Hizballah fighters, and really preyed upon and really viciously brutalized the Syrian people.  So, it’s hard for me to imagine Iran having any role whatsoever.  Why should it?

Türkiye obviously has a very sizable role.  It has sizable influence.  It has, historically, and it’s a neighboring state, and it has national security interests and all sorts of other interests.  I think what – certainly what our government would like to see is a Syria that can stand on its own two feet, that can regain, like its neighbor Iraq, a full measure of sovereignty over its own affairs, and with neighbors being both constructive in their engagements with Syria, and also the Syrian Government, over time, being equally constructive in its engagements and no longer – Syria no longer being a source of insecurity, instability, drug trafficking, and so forth.  So, I think it works both ways.

MODERATOR:  Next we’ll go to the live queue to Nadia Bilbassy-Charters from Al Arabiya TV.  Nadia, please go ahead and ask your question.

QUESTION:  Thank you very much.  Actually, my first question was asked, but let me follow up on a couple of things.  Can you hear me now?  No?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Yes.  Yes.

QUESTION:  Okay, perfect.  Thank you.  Thank you for doing this.  A couple of follow-up, actually, because my questions was asked.  Number one is:  Did you raise with Mr. al-Sharaa that his brother and his brother-in-law have been appointed to a senior position?  Number one.  And second, when you said that you removed the $10 million bounty on his head, does this set a precedent to other wanted terrorists on the list, or do you think that this is a one-off case for the sake of Syria?

And for Roger, have you —

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Okay, but – okay, but let’s – I’m going to give you one question, so choose your question.

QUESTION:  Okay.  All right, I’ll go with the second one, is:  How do you – can you explain the dynamic of removing the $10 million bounty on somebody who’s wanted by the FBI list?  Is this a good thing for other people on this list, encourage them to disengage from terrorism?  Or is it only applicable to Syria?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  So this is a decision, a policy decision, that was made in the interests of and consonant with and aligned with the fact that we are beginning a discussion with HTS.  So, if I’m sitting with the HTS leader and having a lengthy, detailed discussion about a whole series of interested – or interests of the U.S., interests of Syria, maybe interests of the region, suffice to say it’s a little incoherent then to have a bounty on the guy’s head.  Otherwise, I should ask the FBI to come in and, like, arrest him or something.  So, I’m being facetious, but you know what I mean.  We have a set of issues that we would like to discuss with HTS over time, and it is strictly pertaining to Syria and to the circumstances that we see before us.  So no, it has no bearing on any other person.

MODERATOR:  We’ll next take a question in the queue from Hisham Arafat of North Press Agency in Syria.  And Hisham asks:  “Matthew Miller recently mentioned a ceasefire between Türkiye and the SDF effective until the end of this week.  Can you provide any updates regarding the ceasefire and efforts to de-escalate tensions in northern Syria?”

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Yes, certainly.  So, there has been a ceasefire around Manbij and we were, all of us, quite concerned about the effects of fighting near the Tishrin Dam and damage to that dam, especially if it were significant structural damage, the threat that it could cause to thousands of people and communities downstream.

So, there’s that ceasefire.  We are working energetically in discussions with Turkish authorities, also with the SDF.  We think the better – the best way ahead is for a ceasefire around Kobani and that we work, engage to find what I would call a managed transition in terms of SDF’s role in that part of the country.

Look, from December 8th, everything has changed in Syria.  That is quite evident.  Everything has changed.  And the conditions which led to the Kurds who, like many communities in Syria, were at the receiving end of terrible repression, the conditions which led Kurds in northeast Syria to organize themselves and to defend themselves as they did were one set of conditions, and things have really changed in a very dramatic fashion.

What I heard consistently throughout the day and what we’ve discussed with our Kurdish partners who have been very capable and able and indeed critical partners in the fight against ISIS, what I’ve heard consistently is that Syrians want all Syrian communities to think of themselves as Syrians.  And in fact, I was chided a little bit about talking about minorities because Syrians said, including Syrians from minority communities, we’re one people.  We want to think of ourselves as one people.  We don’t want to be turned one against another in the way that the Assad regime did over the decades.

So, I think we’re working above all to de-escalate things there, to not distract from the really critical counter-ISIS fight and the critical role that the SDF has in managing a foreign terrorist fighter set of detention facilities as well was al-Hol Camp while Damascus and the SDF hopefully begin a dialogue themselves.

MODERATOR:  And we have time for one more question.  So, we’ll go to Jennifer Hansler from CNN.  Jennifer, please go ahead and ask your question.

QUESTION:  Hi there.  Can you hear me?

MODERATOR:  We can.

QUESTION:  Can you hear me?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Yes.

QUESTION:  Hello?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Jennifer?

QUESTION:  Guys, can you hear me?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Jennifer, we can hear you.  You can’t hear us.

MODERATOR:  Okay.  Jennifer, if you’d like to type your question in the chat, we’ll read it for you.

QUESTION:  I’m not sure if you can hear me, but we’re hoping for, Barbara, can you give us some color about the meeting?  Was it – did you find that Jolani had moderated himself in his effort to be a statesman?  And then, Roger, are there any other prisons out there that you think that haven’t been found and is there any chance that he is in Iranian or Russian or Hizballah custody, Austin Tice?  Thank you.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  So, to your first question, I would characterize the discussion as quite good, very productive, detailed.  We ranged over a wide set of issues, domestic and external.  He came across as pragmatic.  Of course, we are – we’ve been hearing this for some time, some very pragmatic and moderate statements on various issues from women’s rights to protection of equal rights for all communities, et cetera.

Again, I mean, it was a good first meeting.  We will judge by deeds, not just by words.  Deeds are the critical thing.

I’ll let Roger address your second question.

MR CARSTENS:  Hey, Jennifer, it’s Roger.  Thanks for the question and I’ll try to talk a little more slowly.

So, I’ve been rather amazed at the amount of secret prisons that Assad seems to have amassed.  I think initially we thought there’d be maybe 10 or 20.  It’s probably more like 40.  It might even be more.  They’re in little clusters at times.  Sometimes they’re in the far-out reaches of Damascus.  But the bottom line is that over 12 years, we’ve been able to pinpoint about six facilities that we believe have a high possibility of having had Austin Tice at one point or another.

Now, over the last probably 11 or 12 days we’ve received additional information, based on the changing conditions, which lead us to add maybe one or two or three more facilities to that initial number of six.  Now, we’ve tried to focus on those six because we have limited resources, and since State cannot be on the ground nor can the FBI for an extended amount of time right now, we’ve been working with our partners, allies, NGOs, and even members of the media to take a look at these facilities and give us a sense of what they’re seeing, what they’re finding.

I think, as time goes on, in the next few – in the coming days, weeks, and months it will be our duty, our responsibility to go to the first six sites and search them thoroughly, in addition to knowing that our partners and allies and friends have already searched them, to really fine-tune the evidence gathering in a way that only the FBI can do.

Additionally, we want to keep fanning that search out to the remaining facilities.  And it could end up being like 20 or 30 or 40 prison sites as time goes on.  And we’ll be dong that, of course, with the interim authorities who, to this point, have been very helpful in these searches.  In a perfect world, we’ll find Austin and bring him home and we’ll stop the search.  But the bottom line is – and you know this, Jennifer; you’ve heard me say this numerous times – we’re going to be like bulldogs on this.  We’re not going to stop until we find the information that we need to conclude what has happened to Austin, where he is, and to return him home to his family.

MODERATOR:  And that concludes today’s call.  I am sorry that we could not get to all questions today.  I would like to thank Assistant Secretary Leaf, Special Presidential Envoy Carstens, and Ambassador Rubinstein for joining us, and I would like to thank all of our journalists for participating.

If you have questions about today’s call, you may contact the London International Media Hub at MediaHubLondon@state.gov.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY LEAF:  Thanks very much.

AMBASSADOR RUBINSTEIN:  Thank you.

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